Loure

The citizens of Ishikaze congregate here to discuss the series, found exclusively on wirepop.com.

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Postby edcool1 » Thu Nov 15, 2007 7:16 am

Did you have this in mind when you first introduced the character, Dan?
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Postby Dan » Thu Nov 15, 2007 7:26 am

Loure? Yep. The first evidence is when she/he corrects herself in her introductory chapter after saying "Who's the man?"
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Postby Shou » Thu Nov 15, 2007 7:38 am

edcool1 wrote:I mean, if you're gonna play as a character, you're gonna spend most of your time looking at it...Wouldn't you rather look at something cute rather than some ugly gimly-lookin' dwarf?

You've got the right idea. Unless you're a powergamer and thrive mostly on the numbers, playing a character design you don't think is cool and/or cutesy will make you lose interest much faster.

Maelstrom wrote:But perhaps it is just an RP thing.

That is possible. On the other hand, if he was just trying to role play, I doubt he'd be quite as worked up as he is about the others finding out that he, the player, is a guy. I've never known role players to have a problem with that sort of thing.

Mista_B wrote:Loure is now the most sympathetic and unique characters of any webcomic I read.

Yeah, I agree with you there. No matter what else happens, I certainly sympathize with him for having such a gem of an older brother.

Dan wrote:Yep. The first evidence is when she/he corrects herself in her introductory chapter after saying "Who's the man?"

Very sly, Dan. Very sly. I'd give you a thumbs up smiley right now, but I don't think this forum has one.
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Postby MQmoxie » Thu Nov 15, 2007 5:59 pm

Yeah, I play girls religiously online and in video games. especially the fighting ones since the female characters generally rely more on speed. Terribly interesting twist for the plot. I always find Ishikaze remarkable because I tend to forget that it's a gameworld and not a 'world' which in itself is different from almost every other comic I read.
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Postby Tails » Thu Nov 15, 2007 9:55 pm

Heh I play MMO's as girls all the time, as stated before, they are usually cuter/cooler (except the male human is WoW, he's so uncool it's cool)

Since it was a big deal to reveal it, and judging by his (had to correct myself there) reaction, I would assume he was gay or at least bi curious. I mean, yes, Loure has a lot of respect for Denki, as stated above, but there have been points where it was obvious he liked him as a crush, at least to me. I'd grab some examples but I don't subscribe :(

Neat though, and I think Denki will deal with it ok, although he may be overly quiet for a while :P
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Postby Maelstrom » Fri Nov 16, 2007 12:02 am

I don't quite follow your argument. In the first place, I don't subscribe to the idea that bi/gay-curious boys would try to trick/seduce/fantasize through using a female avatar (at least not for long), and it doesn't correspond to Loure's encounters with Denki -- he was too frank and decidedly non-flirty when they met and as they interacted later on.

However, the more important issue is whether there is a viable alternative. Role play (perhaps including dissonance with gender roles -- this could possibly include sexual curiosity, but I don't really see it as the core of the matter) is a very reasonable explanation, but particularly for a "kid." Many kids (and even adults) are prone to think rules that parents or other authority figures should not be breached, or that they should at least feel some senes of shame if they do break them. Rules often fall along a gradient of validity and importance, but they are often given the same value to the child. Not abusing drugs may be given the same weight as acting according to one's gender -- the book Nineteen Eighty-Four features a more eccentric excerpt along these lines: that as long as you follow the small rules, you can break the big ones.

It may be that Loure feels constrained in his life: having a controlling mother and a mean brother are rough to begin with, and his personality seems to suggest he may have trouble with most of his peers as well, so trying anything novel or different (like assuming a female avatar) is sort of his way of finally gaining something new to explore -- but without a sufficient comfort in his own identity (remember, he's a kid without many good dispensers of wisdom around him), he may still feel ashamed about it. He'll be even more prone to do so if there's someone that who may try to intimidate him to feel ashamed about it, and his brother fits the bill. Certainly we expect Loure's online cohorts to generally not care (although expect mild teasing at the end of the chapter), but a comparable revelation to his real life peers could be terribly embarassing. And Loure probably doesn't know the difference yet.

I've been wrong before, but this explanation seems to fit too well.
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Postby FredMSloniker » Sat Nov 17, 2007 10:57 am

I have to say, 'So?' was the perfect answer to give at that moment. Frankly, in an MMO, real life gender is a non-issue. The only reason they might have to be upset is if Loure had lied, and so far as I recall Loure just never answered the question. I've cross-played from time to time, for reasons ranging from wanting to play a female character to finding the male character art actively offensive, but I've never cared, and often actively avoided finding out, whether someone else was doing the same. After all, they're clearly not a massive troll, so what does it matter if they're also not male?
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Postby Maelstrom » Sun Nov 18, 2007 10:04 pm

Certainly it "does not matter," but we veterans of the Internet take that concept for granted. Wanting to play/act/express as "female," or opting away from the male standard because it doesn't look good is typical in online RPGs, these choices sometimes/often are not accepted or even tolerated in Real Life. Particularly when social norms of "Real Life" and Internet gaming contrast with each other, one is prone to making assumptions as our poor Loure did.

I am not trying to justify the way Real Life works, but merely why Loure acts as he does (with regard to the shame and waterworks we see).
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Postby fishamaphone » Mon Nov 19, 2007 1:38 pm

Back when Fax was threatening Loure in the last chapter, someone mentioned something about gender in the comments, and then things started clicking. I couldn't imagine it being anything else. If you look back, the hints are kinda everywhere. The "I'm the man, erm, woman, erm, female-type person" line being the biggest. Kofou's (sp?) line at the end of the Dust Run chapter. Wanting to be a barbarian. Heck, I'll bet Tabi already knew, which puts some extra context behind the lucky undies and the forced skirt thing.

I think this event is RoI's equivalent to Mr. Kyokasho's bunny sacrifice in AM. I think the best parts of the story are about to come :)
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Postby Maelstrom » Tue Dec 04, 2007 3:51 pm

I guess I saw the hints, but I suppose it might be easier to see that when you get three days to think about a strip before the next one comes out (whereas I had only subscribed months ago, so I read the entries in relatively quick succession).

Or if you have your own female personality.
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